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HPS-SOFTWARE  May 2016

HPS-SOFTWARE May 2016

Subject:

Re: [Hps-analysis] Moller Generator Fixed! (again)

From:

Valery Kubarovsky <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Software for the Heavy Photon Search Experiment <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Mon, 16 May 2016 17:49:04 -0400

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (287 lines)

Hi Takashi,
Thanks for the plots. I agree that the acceptance is sensitive to the Ecal geometry.
However I can conclude from your exercise that the energy distribution is very similar to our data: you have peak near the E=Ebeam/2 what I suspected. As you remember the MC distribution is very different that moves me to the conclusion that we have problems with MC. I suspect that with any reasonable geometry we will not get sharp dip in the electron energy distribution. Never.
Regards,
Valery


----- Original Message -----
> From: "Takashi Maruyama" <[log in to unmask]>
> To: "Valery Kubarovsky" <[log in to unmask]>
> Cc: "Sho Uemura" <[log in to unmask]>, "Bradley T Yale" <[log in to unmask]>, "Maurik Holtrop"
> <[log in to unmask]>, [log in to unmask], "hps-software" <[log in to unmask]>, "Norman A. Graf"
> <[log in to unmask]>, "Stepan Stepanyan" <[log in to unmask]>
> Sent: Monday, May 16, 2016 5:28:41 PM
> Subject: RE: [Hps-analysis] Moller Generator Fixed! (again)

> Attached is Moller events with both e- in the ECal.  I increased the ECal
> acceptance by 1/2 crystal width in the removed crystal region; Ycut = 3.3 -
> 0.65 = 2.65 cm. The energy distribution in solid red is for those Mollers with
> both e- detected in ECal.  Moller acceptance is sensitive to the positions and
> shower development in crystals # -8 and -9.
> 
> Takashi
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Valery Kubarovsky [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
> Sent: Saturday, May 14, 2016 11:43 AM
> To: Maruyama, Takashi
> Cc: Uemura, Sho; Bradley T Yale; Maurik Holtrop; [log in to unmask];
> hps-software; Graf, Norman A.; Stepan Stepanyan
> Subject: Re: [Hps-analysis] Moller Generator Fixed! (again)
> 
> Hi Takashi,
> We don't need shower simulation and real EC response to understand do we have
> dip in the Moller energy distribution or bump.  We cannot resolve this question
> for months. You have flat distribution but without geometrical cut on both
> electrons. One more step and you will get something similar to our data I
> guess.
> Regards,
> Valery
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Takashi Maruyama" <[log in to unmask]>
>> To: "Valery Kubarovsky" <[log in to unmask]>
>> Cc: "Sho Uemura" <[log in to unmask]>, "Bradley T Yale"
>> <[log in to unmask]>, "Maurik Holtrop"
>> <[log in to unmask]>, [log in to unmask], "hps-software"
>> <[log in to unmask]>, "Norman A. Graf"
>> <[log in to unmask]>, "Stepan Stepanyan" <[log in to unmask]>
>> Sent: Saturday, May 14, 2016 1:45:01 PM
>> Subject: Re: [Hps-analysis] Moller Generator Fixed! (again)
> 
>> Hi Valery,
>> 
>> My cut is simple geometrical cut: the crystal edge is 2 cm from the
>> beam, and the removed crystal edge is 2+1.3 = 3.3 cm. No shower
>> simulation is made. What I can conclude with my fast tracking is that
>> I don’t see any problem in the Moller events that Brad generated at
>> the stdhep level. Real ECal response and trigger should be answered by SLIC.
>> These are beyond my fast tracking.
>> 
>>  Takashi
>>> On May 14, 2016, at 10:05 AM, Valery Kubarovsky <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi Takashi,
>>> Thanks for the prompt reply. So you are saying that the we have no
>>> acceptance for Moller electrons at all.
>>> Your conclusion is in contradiction with Geant MC and our data, I believe.
>>> It will be interesting to understand the reason.
>>> - Did you really apply the geometrical cut or made your conclusion
>>> based on your first picture by eye? Picture N2 shows that 1.15 GeV
>>> electrons has X=(-10,-15)cm spread.
>>> - The solid line is just the edge of the crystals at the face of the
>>> calorimeter, correct?
>>> - What if we will apply the crystal's edge cut at the back of the
>>> calorimeter, not at the front face?
>>> - We have 30 mrad angle for beam particles on our target. Do you have
>>> it in your fast MC?
>>> - Can you make your plots for the electrons that have hit in the calorimeter?
>>> 
>>> Thanks again,
>>> Valery
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "Takashi Maruyama" <[log in to unmask]>
>>>> To: "Valery Kubarovsky" <[log in to unmask]>
>>>> Cc: "Sho Uemura" <[log in to unmask]>, "Bradley T Yale"
>>>> <[log in to unmask]>, "Maurik Holtrop"
>>>> <[log in to unmask]>, [log in to unmask], "hps-software"
>>>> <[log in to unmask]>, "Norman A. Graf"
>>>> <[log in to unmask]>
>>>> Sent: Friday, May 13, 2016 6:13:31 PM
>>>> Subject: RE: [Hps-analysis] Moller Generator Fixed! (again)
>>> 
>>>> Hi Valery,
>>>> 
>>>> Attached is the distributions you requested. These are Brad's EGS5
>>>> generated Mollers. If I use the solid lines to represent the crystal
>>>> edges, one of the Moller electrons always falls in this removed
>>>> crystal area; ie both e-'s cannot be detected by ECal.
>>>> 
>>>> Takashi
>>>> 
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: Valery Kubarovsky [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
>>>> Sent: Friday, May 13, 2016 12:08 PM
>>>> To: Maruyama, Takashi
>>>> Cc: Uemura, Sho; Bradley T Yale; Maurik Holtrop;
>>>> [log in to unmask]; hps-software; Graf, Norman A.
>>>> Subject: Re: [Hps-analysis] Moller Generator Fixed! (again)
>>>> 
>>>> Hi Takashi,
>>>> 
>>>> Can you make a several plots from your fast MC:
>>>> 
>>>> 1. Y vs X of the tracks at the face-off the calorimeter:
>>>> 2. The same plot when both of tracks are detected by Ecal 3. The
>>>> energy distribution of the electrons for the events when both tracks detected by
>>>> Ecal.
>>>> 
>>>> I think that it is not very difficult for you.
>>>> The main question to resolve will get the dip in the energy
>>>> distribution or bump at the E=Ebeam/2.
>>>> 
>>>> Thanks in advance,
>>>> Valery
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>> From: "Takashi Maruyama" <[log in to unmask]>
>>>>> To: "Sho Uemura" <[log in to unmask]>, "Bradley T Yale"
>>>>> <[log in to unmask]>
>>>>> Cc: "Maurik Holtrop" <[log in to unmask]>,
>>>>> [log in to unmask], "hps-software" <[log in to unmask]>, "Valery
>>>>> Kubarovsky"
>>>>> <[log in to unmask]>, "Norman A. Graf" <[log in to unmask]>
>>>>> Sent: Friday, May 13, 2016 1:28:29 PM
>>>>> Subject: RE: [Hps-analysis] Moller Generator Fixed! (again)
>>>> 
>>>>> Thanks, Sho. I was going to say exactly the same thing. Attached is
>>>>> Moller distribution at layer 6 in my fast tracking using Brad's
>>>>> Moller events. Moller problem is somewhere else.
>>>>>  Takashi
>>>>> 
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: [log in to unmask]
>>>>> [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Sho Uemura
>>>>> Sent: Friday, May 13, 2016 9:00 AM
>>>>> To: Bradley T Yale
>>>>> Cc: Maurik Holtrop; [log in to unmask]; hps-software; Valeri
>>>>> Koubarovski; Graf, Norman A.
>>>>> Subject: Re: [Hps-analysis] Moller Generator Fixed! (again)
>>>>> 
>>>>> By the usual definition of theta_y (angle of elevation from the xz
>>>>> plane), the direction cosine cos(b) (where b is the angle of
>>>>> inclination from the
>>>>> y-axis) exactly equals sin(theta_y).
>>>>> 
>>>>> What I meant to say is that in small angle, sin(theta_y)~=theta_y.
>>>>> The relation
>>>>> sin(theta)sin(phi)=sin(theta_y) is exact.
>>>>> 
>>>>> On Fri, 13 May 2016, Bradley T Yale wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>>> Even if theta is a small angle, it is multiplied by sin(phi), where phi is not.
>>>>>> ________________________________________
>>>>>> From: [log in to unmask]
>>>>>> <[log in to unmask]> on behalf of Sho Uemura
>>>>>> <[log in to unmask]>
>>>>>> Sent: Friday, May 13, 2016 11:00:46 AM
>>>>>> To: Maurik Holtrop
>>>>>> Cc: Bradley T Yale; [log in to unmask]; HPS Software; Valeri
>>>>>> Koubarovski; Norman A. Graf
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Hps-analysis] Moller Generator Fixed! (again)
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I don't understand - I thought this cut was intended as a theta_y
>>>>>> cut
>>>>>> (>10 mrad above or below the beam plane,so we only keep particles
>>>>>> that might hit a detector), and does v(np) not correctly describe theta_y?
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> So I buy that this explains the difference in the envelope of your
>>>>>> MC truth distribution from theory (the U shape) but not that this
>>>>>> has anything to do with the gap, or any data-MC discrepancy seen
>>>>>> after readout.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Fri, 13 May 2016, Maurik Holtrop wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Hi Bradley,
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> That is great investigative work. You should now indeed check the
>>>>>>> other EGS5 generators for similar issues. As we discussed
>>>>>>> yesterday, there may be an issue with the background events for tridents.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Can you please mention (advertise) this new result at the
>>>>>>> analysis meeting today?
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Best,
>>>>>>>      Maurik
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> On May 13, 2016, at 3:25 AM, Bradley T Yale <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> I think I found the real problem with how the Moller generator
>>>>>>>> was initially set up.
>>>>>>>> This one affects the generated distribution a LOT more than the
>>>>>>>> RNG precision probably did, and explains the remaining
>>>>>>>> strangeness in the generated distribution.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Looking at the egs5 Moller procedure, the angular cut was defined as:
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> abs(v(np)) > 0.010 radians
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> where v(np) is supposed to be theta.
>>>>>>>> However, the variables u, v, and w in egs are actually
>>>>>>>> directional cosines, p_x = p*u,   p_y = p*v,   and   p_z = p*w.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> So this means that in reality, the generator was saving Moller
>>>>>>>> events such that abs [ sin(theta)*sin(phi) ] > 0.010
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> which has a periodic nature to it. Plot this equation for some
>>>>>>>> value of phi (or just think about it) and you'll see what was
>>>>>>>> likely making these strange hills and gaps in the energy
>>>>>>>> distribution - full-wave rectified Mollers!
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> The scattered beam simulation does correctly define theta though:
>>>>>>>> sqrt[ u^2 + v^2 ]
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> I made a moller_v3 procedure with this correction (still with a
>>>>>>>> >10 mrad cut), and the comparison between before and after is shown.
>>>>>>>> The generated events now agree with the calculated cross section
>>>>>>>> (XS curve is shown on the 'bad' plot), and no apparent missing events.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> These will be run through recon to see if we can finally get
>>>>>>>> good Moller agreement with data.
>>>>>>>> I'm also going to try changing the scattered beam energy cut
>>>>>>>> shown in the software meeting to see if it fixes Tim's phi vs. energy
>>>>>>>> discrepancy.
>>>>>>>> -Brad
>>>>>>>> <BadMollers.png><2pt3_mol_v3_moller_E.png>______________________
>>>>>>>> ___
>>>>>>>> _
>>>>>>>> _____________________
>>>>>>>> Hps-analysis mailing list
>>>>>>>> [log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]>
>>>>>>>> https://mailman.jlab.org/mailman/listinfo/hps-analysis
>>>>>>>> <https://mailman.jlab.org/mailman/listinfo/hps-analysis>
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> ##################################################################
>>>>>> ###
>>>>>> #
>>>>>> ##
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>>>>>> A=1
>>>>>> 
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>>>>>> 
>>>>> 
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