 |
 |
I cannot agree more with what Chip says. Let's find a way to keep this valuable resource accessible. In fact, the way should be kept open to *add* to it or improve it. I also suggest that the people who generated the data write a brief ArXiv note on it so that people who use it in their research can cite it. We should cite it in the Snowmass report as well. This is a very important contribution, and should be recognized. Markus Luty ============================================ Physics Department University of California, Davis One Shields Avenue Davis, CA 95616 Phone: +1 530 554 1280 Skype: markus_luty On Sun, Aug 18, 2013 at 10:44 PM, JoAnne L. Hewett <[log in to unmask] > wrote: > Hi All, > > I think this set of backgrounds is an extremely valuable resoure that our > community could greatly use. Every LHC theory paper would be better off > using it. Surely we can find a good home for it somewhere.... > > -JoAnne > > > On Mon, 19 Aug 2013, Raymond Brock wrote: > > Hi folks, >> >> Look. These data constitute a unique resource, created at considerable >> expense and time. There is nothing else like it anywhere: full-statistics >> in tails for small signal comparison, in a tool that's easy to use and >> mated to standard matrix element generators, and with pileup conditions >> that not even the LHC collaborations have simulated in all respects. >> >> It would be a tangible gift provided to the community by their DPF. >> >> Can I promise that it will be used immediately? No. But if the DPF EC can >> get over what I'm sure are a few loud voices and make the nominal funds >> available from its embarrassingly large bank roll, it can then advertise to >> its membership that these tools were built for the community and that they >> remain available for use. >> >> The theory community has nothing like this and neither, frankly, does the >> LHC community. >> >> I can't believe that we're actually considering getting rid of it or >> hiding it. >> >> I've cc'd the EF conveners to this thread (read it all from the bottom!) >> as apparently I need help or a straightjacket. >> >> best >> Chip >> >> >> On Aug 18, 2013, at 11:47 AM, LATBauerdick <[log in to unmask]<mailto:bau >> **[log in to unmask] <[log in to unmask]>>> >> wrote: >> >> >> I?d say, people should make the case if they think this data should be an >> actively available dataset long-term, that people continue to run on and >> thus should be available on disk (and there?s much more at Fermilab and >> Brookhaven). >> >> >> Otherwise it can be archived and brought back when it is needed. >> >> I heard some people would like to continue in the next weeks to run for >> some additional studies for the ECFA meeting, which is fine, but also has a >> finite time scale. >> >> Beyond that, keeping data on disk just in case somebody later might want >> it is generally not a good way to go. And, yes, USCMS would like to >> eventually get that space back at Lincoln and at the LPC/Fermilab. >> >> Cheers, LatB >> >> -- >> LATBauerdick >> >> >> On Sunday, August 18, 2013 at 11:34 AM, Raymond L Brock wrote: >> >> Hi Steve, >> >> There's more. Here's a reply that I made to the EC after it was turned >> down after what Jon called "considerable resistance." >> >> The storage I spoke of is for a snowmass product. It's not a lot of money >> and we have to somehow relieve Ken Bloom of the violation of his MOU that >> he's done to host the root tuples that are of all of the backgrounds >> generated within the snowmass detector tool. The madgraph and pythia source >> still lives at FNAL and I've not heard of any threat to delete that stuff. >> He's also created an http download ability and I think he'd continue to >> support that. So it's a one-stop shopping center for backgrounds that >> include a fancy weighting scheme to populate tails of SM background >> distributions for rare signal comparisons. It's quick. It's simple and it's >> got a lot of use to it. For theorists, students, and yes, EF people who >> venture outside of their collaborations' straightjackets. >> >> I'm shocked that the EC would put up "considerable resistance" to this >> request. It has utility if we might ever - in the next few years - do any >> other community-wide simulation jamboree. I think at least some of the good >> feelings you got from Marcelle and Bjoern reflect that non-tribal benefits >> of working together. The Italians do something like this between CMS and >> ATLAS and I'd like to explore that in the US and those background samples >> are a great way for people to work on simulations for fun (or profit) and >> not worry about the onerous CMS and ATLAS rules. And as I said, they're >> available for theorists as well. >> >> Here's the tally: http://snowmass2013.org/tiki-**index.php?page=** >> NPBackgroundSamplesTwiki<http://snowmass2013.org/tiki-index.php?page=NPBackgroundSamplesTwiki> >> >> The context is that the DPF always has way more money in its account than >> I felt comfortable with as chair. It's _down_ to $100k now. >> >> So if the goal was just to archive the stuff, then sure. Tape would be a >> portable, permanent way to do that. But I have in mind that people might >> continue to use it. So the ability to get at the files easily would be a >> premium, as it has been for snowmass. I then offered to buy back the disks >> from DPF for our tier 2 if nobody used it for a couple of years. >> >> best >> Chip >> >> >> On Aug 18, 2013, at 2:29 AM, Steven Gottlieb < >> [log in to unmask]**<mailto:[log in to unmask]**indiana.edu<[log in to unmask]> >> >> >> >> wrote: >> >> Why not write them to tape? That would be much less expensive. >> >> Steve >> >> On Sun, 2013-08-18 at 01:15 -0500, Jonathan L. Rosner wrote: >> See the third thing. Opinions welcome. Is this a Snowmass resource >> that DPF should pay to preserve? >> >> Regards, >> Jon >> -- Jonathan L. Rosner >> Enrico Fermi Inst., U. Chicago Phone: 773-702-7694 >> 5620 S. Ellis Avenue Fax: 773-702-8038 >> Chicago, IL 60637 USA [log in to unmask]<**mailto: >> [log in to unmask]**> >> ==============================**==============================**==== >> >> >> On Aug 14, 2013, at 11:40 AM, Chip Brock <[log in to unmask]<mailto:brock** >> @pa.msu.edu <[log in to unmask]>>> wrote: >> >> hi Chair Line, >> Two things have come up which I think I should alert you to. >> >> ... >> >> 3. I know. I lied. This is a third thing. The snowmass background >> samples have been stored at the Nebraska T2. Ken supplied the resources >> - disk shelves - out of his T2 resources and he'll need them back. I >> think that this stuff should be preserved so people can continue to use >> them and so the easiest way to do that would be to buy disks for Ken to >> replace his loan. He's thinking about whether he can justify the >> support, but I suspect he can. The top end of storage would be about >> 100TB, so that's a $10k or so expense which I suggest DPF spend. >> >> That is all. >> Thanks >> Chip >> >> ------------------------------**------------------------------**--- >> Raymond Brock * University Distinguished Professor >> Department of Physics and Astronomy >> Michigan State University >> Biomedical Physical Sciences >> 567 WIlson Road, Room 3210 >> East Lansing, MI 48824 >> sent from: [log in to unmask]<mailto:brock@**pa.msu.edu <[log in to unmask]>> >> >> >> cell: (517)927-5447 >> MSU office: (517)353-1693/884-5579 >> open fax: (517)355-6661 >> secure fax: (517)351-0688 >> Fermilab office: (630)840-2286 >> CERN Office: 32 2-B03 * 76-71756 >> >> Twitter: @chipbrock >> Home: http://www.pa.msu.edu/~brock/ >> ISP220: http://www.pa.msu.edu/courses/**ISP220/<http://www.pa.msu.edu/courses/ISP220/> >> ISP213H: http://www.pa.msu.edu/courses/**2007spring/ISP213H/<http://www.pa.msu.edu/courses/2007spring/ISP213H/> >> Facebook: http://msu.facebook.com/**profile.php?id=2312233<http://msu.facebook.com/profile.php?id=2312233> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------**------------------------------**--- >> Raymond Brock * University Distinguished Professor >> Department of Physics and Astronomy >> Michigan State University >> Biomedical Physical Sciences >> 567 WIlson Road, Room 3210 >> East Lansing, MI 48824 >> sent from: [log in to unmask]<mailto:brock@**pa.msu.edu <[log in to unmask]>> >> >> >> cell: (517)927-5447 >> MSU office: (517)353-1693/884-5579 >> open fax: (517)355-6661 >> secure fax: (517)351-0688 >> Fermilab office: (630)840-2286 >> CERN Office: 32 2-B03 * 76-71756 >> >> Twitter: @chipbrock >> Home: http://www.pa.msu.edu/~brock/ >> ISP220: http://www.pa.msu.edu/courses/**ISP220/<http://www.pa.msu.edu/courses/ISP220/> >> ISP213H: http://www.pa.msu.edu/courses/**2007spring/ISP213H/<http://www.pa.msu.edu/courses/2007spring/ISP213H/> >> Facebook: http://msu.facebook.com/**profile.php?id=2312233<http://msu.facebook.com/profile.php?id=2312233> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > ##############################**##############################** > ############ > > Use REPLY-ALL to reply to list > > To unsubscribe from the SNOWMASS-EF list, click the following link: > https://listserv.slac.**stanford.edu/cgi-bin/wa?**SUBED1=SNOWMASS-EF&A=1<https://listserv.slac.stanford.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=SNOWMASS-EF&A=1> > ######################################################################## Use REPLY-ALL to reply to list To unsubscribe from the SNOWMASS-EF list, click the following link: https://listserv.slac.stanford.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=SNOWMASS-EF&A=1