Ditto: I had an undergrad and a new grad student start off with 14-TeV studies with these Snowmass samples this past summer as a way to ease them in. Very useful. - Rick On 8/20/13 7:17 AM, Reinhard Schwienhorst wrote: > Hi, > I also strongly support keeping the Snowmass samples in a downloadable > location. From an analyzer perspective these have indeed been > invaluable, without them many Snowmass studies would not have happened. > This includes both the existing samples that need to be kept around and > also the prescription and input files to generate new samples. Between > the backgrounds and the prescriptions I am able to study any new physics > model (or precision SM measurement) at several CM energies and the > HL-LHC, something that wasn't possible until now. > Going forward, they will not only be useful to theorists but also to > experimentalists. Especially for new graduate students or for undergrads > or for summer students, dealing with the Snowmass samples is much more > straightforward than becoming ATLAS or CMS members first, then > understanding the intricacies of the respective data and analysis models > and then starting an analysis. With help of the Snowmass samples the > path to physics is much shorter, and graduate students can switch to > data analysis once they understand the physics through these Snowmass > samples. I intend to use them with students and postdocs in future studies. > > Cheers, > Reinhard > > > > On Aug 19, 2013, at 4:39 PM, Meenakshi Narain > <[log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]>> wrote: > >> Dear All, >> >> I would like to join in with my support for keeping this set of >> simulated samples around. >> These MC datasets have been valuable in many NP studies for snowmass. >> I urge the DPF exec committee to invest in preserving these data and >> I fully support the request made by Chip. >> >> The amount of resources - both personnel and computing, which have >> been used to produce these >> samples are non-negligible (and much more than the requested >> investment of 10K to preserve the data). >> These samples have a reasonable detector parameterization, include >> large pileups scenarios, >> along with higher com energies (33 TeV and 100 TeV) - for the first time. >> Many of us have contributed our time (beyond our regular day jobs) to >> this project because >> we felt very strongly that these samples were needed by the EF >> community now and also for the future. >> The umbrella of snowmass brought many of us together, across the usual >> boundaries of our experiments >> and collaborate with our theory colleagues with the help of the OSG, >> to address a critical resource needed for our studies. >> The techniques we developed and samples we have produced definitely >> have a lifetime beyond >> snowmass, as witnessed by the fact that CMS requested us to use them >> for ECFA studies. >> And surely it will not stop there and will be used not only by our >> theory colleagues, but also by experimentalists >> investigating their ideas for future studies. >> >> The note is already public: arXiv:1308.1636 >> " Methods and Results for Standard Model Event Generation at >> $\sqrt{s}$ = 14 TeV, 33 TeV and 100 TeV Proton Colliders (A Snowmass >> Whitepaper)" >> >> Regards, >> Meenakshi >> >> ====================== >> Prof. Meenakshi Narain >> >> Phone: 401-863-2634 >> [log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]> >> >> Department of Physics, >> Box 1843 >> Brown University, >> Providence, RI, 02912 >> >> On Aug 19, 2013, at 1:39 PM, "Markus A. Luty" >> <[log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]>> wrote: >> >>> I cannot agree more with what Chip says. Let's find a way to keep >>> this valuable resource accessible. In fact, the way should be kept >>> open to *add* to it or improve it. >>> >>> I also suggest that the people who generated the data write a brief >>> ArXiv note on it so that people who use it in their research can cite >>> it. We should cite it in the Snowmass report as well. This is a very >>> important contribution, and should be recognized. >>> >>> Markus Luty >>> >>> ============================================ >>> Physics Department >>> University of California, Davis >>> One Shields Avenue >>> Davis, CA 95616 >>> >>> Phone: +1 530 554 1280 >>> Skype: markus_luty >>> >>> >>> >>> On Sun, Aug 18, 2013 at 10:44 PM, JoAnne L. Hewett >>> <[log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]>> wrote: >>> >>> Hi All, >>> >>> I think this set of backgrounds is an extremely valuable resoure >>> that our community could greatly use. Every LHC theory paper >>> would be better off using it. Surely we can find a good home for >>> it somewhere.... >>> >>> -JoAnne >>> >>> >>> On Mon, 19 Aug 2013, Raymond Brock wrote: >>> >>> Hi folks, >>> >>> Look. These data constitute a unique resource, created at >>> considerable expense and time. There is nothing else like it >>> anywhere: full-statistics in tails for small signal >>> comparison, in a tool that's easy to use and mated to >>> standard matrix element generators, and with pileup >>> conditions that not even the LHC collaborations have >>> simulated in all respects. >>> >>> It would be a tangible gift provided to the community by >>> their DPF. >>> >>> Can I promise that it will be used immediately? No. But if >>> the DPF EC can get over what I'm sure are a few loud voices >>> and make the nominal funds available from its embarrassingly >>> large bank roll, it can then advertise to its membership that >>> these tools were built for the community and that they remain >>> available for use. >>> >>> The theory community has nothing like this and neither, >>> frankly, does the LHC community. >>> >>> I can't believe that we're actually considering getting rid >>> of it or hiding it. >>> >>> I've cc'd the EF conveners to this thread (read it all from >>> the bottom!) as apparently I need help or a straightjacket. >>> >>> best >>> Chip >>> >>> >>> On Aug 18, 2013, at 11:47 AM, LATBauerdick >>> <[log in to unmask] >>> <mailto:[log in to unmask]><mailto:[log in to unmask] >>> <mailto:[log in to unmask]>>> >>> wrote: >>> >>> >>> I?d say, people should make the case if they think this data >>> should be an actively available dataset long-term, that >>> people continue to run on and thus should be available on >>> disk (and there?s much more at Fermilab and Brookhaven). >>> >>> >>> Otherwise it can be archived and brought back when it is needed. >>> >>> I heard some people would like to continue in the next weeks >>> to run for some additional studies for the ECFA meeting, >>> which is fine, but also has a finite time scale. >>> >>> Beyond that, keeping data on disk just in case somebody later >>> might want it is generally not a good way to go. And, yes, >>> USCMS would like to eventually get that space back at Lincoln >>> and at the LPC/Fermilab. >>> >>> Cheers, LatB >>> >>> -- >>> LATBauerdick >>> >>> >>> On Sunday, August 18, 2013 at 11:34 AM, Raymond L Brock wrote: >>> >>> Hi Steve, >>> >>> There's more. Here's a reply that I made to the EC after it >>> was turned down after what Jon called "considerable resistance." >>> >>> The storage I spoke of is for a snowmass product. It's not a >>> lot of money and we have to somehow relieve Ken Bloom of the >>> violation of his MOU that he's done to host the root tuples >>> that are of all of the backgrounds generated within the >>> snowmass detector tool. The madgraph and pythia source still >>> lives at FNAL and I've not heard of any threat to delete that >>> stuff. He's also created an http download ability and I think >>> he'd continue to support that. So it's a one-stop shopping >>> center for backgrounds that include a fancy weighting scheme >>> to populate tails of SM background distributions for rare >>> signal comparisons. It's quick. It's simple and it's got a >>> lot of use to it. For theorists, students, and yes, EF people >>> who venture outside of their collaborations' straightjackets. >>> >>> I'm shocked that the EC would put up "considerable >>> resistance" to this request. It has utility if we might ever >>> - in the next few years - do any other community-wide >>> simulation jamboree. I think at least some of the good >>> feelings you got from Marcelle and Bjoern reflect that >>> non-tribal benefits of working together. The Italians do >>> something like this between CMS and ATLAS and I'd like to >>> explore that in the US and those background samples are a >>> great way for people to work on simulations for fun (or >>> profit) and not worry about the onerous CMS and ATLAS rules. >>> And as I said, they're available for theorists as well. >>> >>> Here's the tally: >>> http://snowmass2013.org/tiki-__index.php?page=__NPBackgroundSamplesTwiki >>> <http://snowmass2013.org/tiki-index.php?page=NPBackgroundSamplesTwiki> >>> >>> The context is that the DPF always has way more money in its >>> account than I felt comfortable with as chair. It's _down_ to >>> $100k now. >>> >>> So if the goal was just to archive the stuff, then sure. Tape >>> would be a portable, permanent way to do that. But I have in >>> mind that people might continue to use it. So the ability to >>> get at the files easily would be a premium, as it has been >>> for snowmass. I then offered to buy back the disks from DPF >>> for our tier 2 if nobody used it for a couple of years. >>> >>> best >>> Chip >>> >>> >>> On Aug 18, 2013, at 2:29 AM, Steven Gottlieb >>> <[log in to unmask] >>> <mailto:[log in to unmask]>__<mailto:[log in to unmask] >>> <mailto:[log in to unmask]>>> >>> >>> wrote: >>> >>> Why not write them to tape? That would be much less expensive. >>> >>> Steve >>> >>> On Sun, 2013-08-18 at 01:15 -0500, Jonathan L. Rosner wrote: >>> See the third thing. Opinions welcome. Is this a Snowmass >>> resource >>> that DPF should pay to preserve? >>> >>> Regards, >>> Jon >>> -- Jonathan L. Rosner >>> Enrico Fermi Inst., U. Chicago Phone: 773-702-7694 >>> <tel:773-702-7694> >>> 5620 S. Ellis Avenue Fax: 773-702-8038 >>> <tel:773-702-8038> >>> Chicago, IL 60637 USA [log in to unmask] >>> <mailto:[log in to unmask]><__mailto:[log in to unmask] >>> <mailto:[log in to unmask]>__> >>> ==============================__==============================__==== >>> >>> >>> On Aug 14, 2013, at 11:40 AM, Chip Brock <[log in to unmask] >>> <mailto:[log in to unmask]><mailto:[log in to unmask] >>> <mailto:[log in to unmask]>>> wrote: >>> >>> hi Chair Line, >>> Two things have come up which I think I should alert you to. >>> >>> ... >>> >>> 3. I know. I lied. This is a third thing. The snowmass background >>> samples have been stored at the Nebraska T2. Ken supplied the >>> resources >>> - disk shelves - out of his T2 resources and he'll need them >>> back. I >>> think that this stuff should be preserved so people can >>> continue to use >>> them and so the easiest way to do that would be to buy disks >>> for Ken to >>> replace his loan. He's thinking about whether he can justify the >>> support, but I suspect he can. The top end of storage would >>> be about >>> 100TB, so that's a $10k or so expense which I suggest DPF spend. >>> >>> That is all. >>> Thanks >>> Chip >>> >>> ------------------------------__------------------------------__--- >>> Raymond Brock * University Distinguished Professor >>> Department of Physics and Astronomy >>> Michigan State University >>> Biomedical Physical Sciences >>> 567 WIlson Road, Room 3210 >>> East Lansing, MI 48824 >>> sent from: [log in to unmask] >>> <mailto:[log in to unmask]><mailto:[log in to unmask] >>> <mailto:[log in to unmask]>> >>> >>> >>> cell: (517)927-5447 <tel:%28517%29927-5447> >>> MSU office: (517)353-1693/884-5579 >>> open fax: (517)355-6661 <tel:%28517%29355-6661> >>> secure fax: (517)351-0688 <tel:%28517%29351-0688> >>> Fermilab office: (630)840-2286 <tel:%28630%29840-2286> >>> CERN Office: 32 2-B03 * 76-71756 >>> >>> Twitter: @chipbrock >>> Home: http://www.pa.msu.edu/~brock/ >>> ISP220: http://www.pa.msu.edu/courses/__ISP220/ >>> <http://www.pa.msu.edu/courses/ISP220/> >>> ISP213H: http://www.pa.msu.edu/courses/__2007spring/ISP213H/ >>> <http://www.pa.msu.edu/courses/2007spring/ISP213H/> >>> Facebook: http://msu.facebook.com/__profile.php?id=2312233 >>> <http://msu.facebook.com/profile.php?id=2312233> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------__------------------------------__--- >>> Raymond Brock * University Distinguished Professor >>> Department of Physics and Astronomy >>> Michigan State University >>> Biomedical Physical Sciences >>> 567 WIlson Road, Room 3210 >>> East Lansing, MI 48824 >>> sent from: [log in to unmask] >>> <mailto:[log in to unmask]><mailto:[log in to unmask] >>> <mailto:[log in to unmask]>> >>> >>> >>> cell: (517)927-5447 <tel:%28517%29927-5447> >>> MSU office: (517)353-1693/884-5579 >>> open fax: (517)355-6661 <tel:%28517%29355-6661> >>> secure fax: (517)351-0688 <tel:%28517%29351-0688> >>> Fermilab office: (630)840-2286 <tel:%28630%29840-2286> >>> CERN Office: 32 2-B03 * 76-71756 >>> >>> Twitter: @chipbrock >>> Home: http://www.pa.msu.edu/~brock/ >>> ISP220: http://www.pa.msu.edu/courses/__ISP220/ >>> <http://www.pa.msu.edu/courses/ISP220/> >>> ISP213H: http://www.pa.msu.edu/courses/__2007spring/ISP213H/ >>> <http://www.pa.msu.edu/courses/2007spring/ISP213H/> >>> Facebook: http://msu.facebook.com/__profile.php?id=2312233 >>> <http://msu.facebook.com/profile.php?id=2312233> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> ##############################__##############################__############ >>> >>> Use REPLY-ALL to reply to list >>> >>> To unsubscribe from the SNOWMASS-EF list, click the following link: >>> https://listserv.slac.__stanford.edu/cgi-bin/wa?__SUBED1=SNOWMASS-EF&A=1 >>> <https://listserv.slac.stanford.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=SNOWMASS-EF&A=1> >>> >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>> >>> Use REPLY-ALL to reply to list >>> >>> To unsubscribe from the SNOWMASS-EF list, click the following link: >>> https://listserv.slac.stanford.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=SNOWMASS-EF&A=1 >>> >> >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> >> Use REPLY-ALL to reply to list >> >> To unsubscribe from the SNOWMASS-EF list, click the following link: >> https://listserv.slac.stanford.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=SNOWMASS-EF&A=1 >> > > -- > > Reinhard Schwienhorst Email: [log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]> > Associate Professor Phone: (517) 884-5566 > Michigan State University > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > Use REPLY-ALL to reply to list > > To unsubscribe from the SNOWMASS-EF list, click the following link: > https://listserv.slac.stanford.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=SNOWMASS-EF&A=1 > -- Rick Van Kooten \ Telephone: (812) 855-2650 FNAL: (630) 840-3859 Dept. of Physics \ HEP FAX: (812) 855-0440 Indiana University \ e-mail: [log in to unmask] Swain Hall West 117 \ http://hep.physics.indiana.edu/~rickv/aboutme.html Bloomington, IN 47405 ######################################################################## Use REPLY-ALL to reply to list To unsubscribe from the SNOWMASS-EF list, click the following link: https://listserv.slac.stanford.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=SNOWMASS-EF&A=1